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Post by Pawel on May 23, 2021 17:15:09 GMT
To squid or not to squid?
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Post by lupmet on May 24, 2021 13:05:09 GMT
Would there be a third option? I think "holding their breath for long" isn't quite as "alien Poseidon" as gills, what other things would be more plausible? Personally I think the disbelief in keeping the blood thermally insulated from the water the one hardest to suspend, but if the breath cannot be held for a significant amount of time I think some other option needs to be invented...
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Post by Pawel on May 24, 2021 13:53:46 GMT
Would there be a third option? I think "holding their breath for long" isn't quite as "alien Poseidon" as gills, what other things would be more plausible? Personally I think the disbelief in keeping the blood thermally insulated from the water the one hardest to suspend, but if the breath cannot be held for a significant amount of time I think some other option needs to be invented... Hmm, Diving Reflex Analog is still a biomod developed in year 2080 by a brilliant (even if naughty naughty) Incorporate lab - and it does seem much easier to make pre-Longjohn than the Systemic Osmoform. But yeah, everybody will put their dial in a different place on the suspension of disbelief meter. Hence the poll, I think. Hey, but great thinking outside the box! What other biomod could you think of, outside of gills and the diving reflex?
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Jason
Junior Member
Posts: 30
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Post by Jason on May 24, 2021 14:40:48 GMT
I've always found the Squids a little jarring, and wouldn't mind seeing them excluded. I don't have strong feelings either way though, I don't think.
Could they perhaps just be retconned as having been developed a lot more recently and rarer? So still available to player characters, but needing a bit more justification?
EDIT: I typed this out, and then spotted that Gareth Hanrahan (Who once GMed a Blue Planet game at a Con that I played in, and was excellent) has essentially posted the same thing.
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Post by Pawel on May 24, 2021 15:22:58 GMT
I've always found the Squids a little jarring, and wouldn't mind seeing them excluded. I don't have strong feelings either way though, I don't think. Could they perhaps just be retconned as having been developed a lot more recently and rarer? So still available to player characters, but needing a bit more justification? EDIT: I typed this out, and then spotted that Gareth Hanrahan (Who once GMed a Blue Planet game at a Con that I played in, and was excellent) has essentially posted the same thing. Hehe, spot on, mate.
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Post by starkiller on May 24, 2021 15:41:36 GMT
I've always found the Squids a little jarring, and wouldn't mind seeing them excluded. I don't have strong feelings either way though, I don't think. Could they perhaps just be retconned as having been developed a lot more recently and rarer? So still available to player characters, but needing a bit more justification? EDIT: I typed this out, and then spotted that Gareth Hanrahan (Who once GMed a Blue Planet game at a Con that I played in, and was excellent) has essentially posted the same thing. For me retconning and making the squid a product of later genetic tech would be the best option, the historical setting goes more hard sci-fi, while the PC don’t lose a character option. Besides in a setting like BP with it’s advanced genetic engineering would be strange not to have a gill biomod.
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Post by Pawel on May 24, 2021 15:46:54 GMT
Well, with 1 hour to go and over 10% lead, Divers do appear to be winning this race.
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Post by grinnenbaeritt on Jun 1, 2021 10:57:46 GMT
I've never found having BOTH an issue. What has been the issue is the assumption that either/or is a problem in campaign terms. Having a genetically "produced" aqua-form, as opposed to a added-enhancement bio-tech upgrade... it's just a case of two different approaches to the same problem.
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Post by doublea on Jun 10, 2021 2:03:54 GMT
My BP games will always have squid. Just feels narratively right, 'suspension of disbelief' be damned. They help make the setting, and the natives, more 'alien' I think.
Though in all fairness, whenever I ran BP I did have a caveat about squids only being able to operate in temperate waters due to increased susceptibility to hypothermia; I figured, salmon sharks (bout the same mass as a human) can maintain a body temp of +10C above ocean water so, it's totally feasible. I digress! :>
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Post by Pawel on Jun 10, 2021 8:09:35 GMT
My BP games will always have squid. Just feels narratively right, 'suspension of disbelief' be damned. They help make the setting, and the natives, more 'alien' I think. Though in all fairness, whenever I ran BP I did have a caveat about squids only being able to operate in temperate waters due to increased susceptibility to hypothermia; I figured, salmon sharks (bout the same mass as a human) can maintain a body temp of +10C above ocean water so, it's totally feasible. I digress! :> You make a good point! I think the poll and the related brainstorm has helped Jeff weigh and compare all the factors , but hard to tell whether the decision's been made yet.
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Post by forgottenlore on Jun 17, 2021 1:48:51 GMT
Been sick a while and unable to read or post for a while so maybe I am not understanding the question, but why on Earth (or Poseidon) would they want to retcon away Squids (or am I misunderstanding the thread?). Natives with gills is integral to the game. It’s one of the big things giving the setting it’s flavor.
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Post by Pawel on Jun 17, 2021 6:49:58 GMT
Been sick a while and unable to read or post for a while so maybe I am not understanding the question, but why on Earth (or Poseidon) would they want to retcon away Squids (or am I misunderstanding the thread?). Natives with gills is integral to the game. It’s one of the big things giving the setting it’s flavor. Hey Troy, hope you're feeling better now! The main reason to consider retconning the Athena Project squid is the hard sci-fi approach to year 2085 and what would have been possible, or plausible, then. The discovery of Long John in 2187 of course opened up a whole new dimension of genetic engineering, making the squid aquaform relatively easy to achieve, but a hundred years earlier and before xenosilicates, functional gills in a human may have been too much to ask. Having said that, the poll ended up being almost 50%/50% and Biohazard are still considering how to proceed, I think.
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Post by forgottenlore on Jun 18, 2021 1:08:49 GMT
With the way technology is advancing today, there is very little that can’t be plausibly be doable 60+ years from now.
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Post by grinnenbaeritt on Jun 18, 2021 4:50:52 GMT
The main reason to consider retconning the Athena Project squid is the hard sci-fi approach to year 2085 and what would have been possible, or plausible, then. The discovery of Long John in 2187 of course opened up a whole new dimension of genetic engineering, making the squid aquaform relatively easy to achieve, but a hundred years earlier and before xenosilicates, functional gills in a human may have been too much to ask. Having said that, the poll ended up being almost 50%/50% and Biohazard are still considering how to proceed, I think. You just need to reflect on the rate of acceleration in scientific progress made in certain fields. Some elements of early sci-fi made predictions that we have yet to achieve today (like faster than light travel), but in some fields, we've already easily surpassed what was predicted. Many of the issues behind achieving these predicted "advances" is usually a lack of a "breakthrough" of one kind or another. The ability to "Clone" has been around for a few years now, that and DNA sequencing, plus many other factors (on which I'm far too dim to fully comprehend) mean that predictable custom gene-modification of foetuses may be "difficult" but not impossible, even now... and it's only ethical considerations and a lack of "the profit motive" that have prevented such advances. Remove the former and provide a reason for the later, then such things are a definite possibility. It's currently 2021.. 2085 is 64 years in the future.. In a similar time period humans have gone from the wright brothers to moon-landings. Who knows...?
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Post by Pawel on Jun 18, 2021 8:25:42 GMT
Hard sci-fi worldbuilding is definitely a fun process as attempts at predicting what might happen can sometimes be quite on the ball and sometimes hugely off the mark.
But if we were to approach this topic from the hindside - if the squid biomod was achievable before Long John, would there really be a need for xenosilicates? A need so big as to drive Poseidon's mad colonisation rush and greed-fuelled corporate wars? What would xenosilicates allow genetic engineers to do if functional gills could be achieved without them?
I imagine sci-fi tech review in an established fictional setting is all about updating future speculative tech, but some general timeline and worldbuilding balancing is probably required too.
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